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Post by Sequel on Feb 3, 2007 1:51:12 GMT -6
Often in writing, the communion of the Holy Spirit has a dramatic and perceptive effect upon the way spiritual matters are 'allegorized'. As we are taught by the Holy Spirit, the spiritual meaning of the Word cannot be understood by the non-spiritual definitions of linguists and wisemen of the world! Spiritual Christians must seek to define the spiritual meaning of the Word as the Holy Spirit defines it to us.
During my conferences using a forum basis, the question was raised as to the defining the 'Soul' of mankind. My immediate reply was - the sum of all experiences.
Years later, during the study of the Spirit of God and the spirit of man, the definition fitted perfectly. Even in the study of multiple universes and string theories, the definition was further supported and reinforced.
I would like the reader's comments as to defining the Soul of mankind.
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Post by Seeker on Feb 3, 2007 9:46:45 GMT -6
Sequel, I hear what you are saying, one thing crosses my mind though. We are born with a nature and character. I could tell in the womb the nature of my own children by the way they moved and reacted to what they could hear from their outside world. This too would add to the dimension of the soul. Seeing that God himself knits us together (spirit and body and soul) in our wombs I can only conclude us to be His handiwork. I know that the spiritual ears and eyes we have we are born with and some are given more and required more of. My mom, a mother of twelve, once said exhasperatedly, "If only two of them were the same I might have figured out parenting" . What we do with what He gives is our responsibility, but I do know that our souls are all unique like the snowflakes that fall. God Bless, Seeker
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Post by Prez on Feb 3, 2007 10:58:45 GMT -6
Sequel,
Do you mean our souls is like a sponge, and our experiences is what we absorb? And the nature of our souls will depend on what we absorb?
creation,
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Post by Sequel on Feb 3, 2007 11:58:51 GMT -6
Prez,
Can the Soul of mankind be defined outside of our experiences? After death, there is a continuum of memories of what we have been and are. Absence of body does not stop this continuum and the revelations of exorcisms bears witness to this issue.
To provoke thought, the spirit of mankind is the encapsulation of such experiences. Does this hint to an unsuspecting mankind as the infinite attribute of God? Can the Soul exist without the spirit or does it return to God? Since God's Spirit is infinte, does not God encapsulate for each human - the sum of all experiences? Is life given to experience or does mankind engage with God to be or not to be with God?
I have witheld from my newest book - The Mask of the Demon a conceptualization of God's Spirit. At some point it should be put to print to further understand our God. The enormity of God is 'unimaginabe' and yet, we can grasp for His attribute as He reveals to us.
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Post by Prez on Feb 3, 2007 17:40:42 GMT -6
Sequel,
Wow thats very thought provoking, I dont know how to respond to that.
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Post by Seeker on Feb 3, 2007 18:03:58 GMT -6
Hmmmm....that is very deep.......So....is the second death the last chance for all the souls of those who would not return to him? Their spirits return to God and the souls sent to eternal d**nation or non-existence or eternal continuum of misery? In other words....all spirits return to God regardless and the evil souls into eternal d**nation? I noticed in the second book of Esdras that is says Adam in bodily form was without soul and that his spirit was added by God, proving that they (spirit and soul) can be seperated and exist outside of each other.
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Post by Sequel on Feb 4, 2007 2:46:23 GMT -6
Seeker,
Those who rejected Jesus and die, will be moved by forces beyond their control. They depart from their body form and are only Soul/spirit. In absence from their body they lose all sensory perception - they cannot see, smell, feel, or hear without their body. Because of this loss of senses - this becomes the 'main reason' why unclean spirits in a disembodied form - enter people's bodies. Once inside a person's body their sensory perception become reactivated. They can live in the physical world again!
It is my conclusion that the unclean spirit/soul of people are excluded from the Kingdom of God and Heaven. They are given what they falsely presume to be their own heaven without God, a state of being for their souls outside of all living universes and their spirits return to God. It is unimagineable and without life!
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Post by Seeker on Feb 4, 2007 12:58:32 GMT -6
Sequel, I was reading a book titled Heaven and Hell by Jacob Beohme and was curious if you had read it and will include the downloadable free book website for those who might be interested. It was interesting to think that as the kingdom of heaven is within us so might well be the kingdom of hell and that when the body drops, there you stand viz. if your life is Godly and God reigns and rules your heart you stay in the light of Truth, but if you live in lies, hate, and evil you awake into kingdom of darkness and that one can only see true Light through the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ. This book makes you think about the soul and I thought you might enjoy it. Also, I don't endorse everything one this web site but it does have some thought provoking information which can be spiritually discerned. www.insightsofgod.com/teachings.htmlAt times I almost feel like we are God's day-dream. He thought it up, beginning from the end and has done it who knows how many times.
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Post by chrioni on Feb 9, 2007 22:26:28 GMT -6
It's very clear from Scripture (Hebrews 4:12) that our souls and our spirits are two SEPARATE entities in us.
The SOUL dominates the life of the carnal/worldly Christian.
The SPIRIT dominates the life of the spiritual/renewed Christian.
Our spirits were CREATED by the ever blessed great God BEFORE Genesis 1:1 i.e. BEFORE time was created and BEFORE planet earth was created.
Ephesians 1:4 He (God the Father) hath chosen us in Him (Christ Jesus) BEFORE the foundation of the world (Greek word for "world" is cosmos which means the material universe that includes time and the planet earth).
In the beginning, God created the world of spirits and called them angels.
In Job 38:4, God was asking Job a question, "Where was thou when I laid the foundations of the earth?"
God created us in His image BEFORE the highest particle of the dust of the earth was formed.
By fore knowledge and fore counsel, we were predestined to experience the fall of Adam and to be redeemed and formed back into the image of God.
In the appointed time, God will bring to our remembrance of all things that He has said to us.
Jesus Himself said in John 14:26 that the Holy Ghost will bring all things to our remembrance whatsoever He has said unto us.
The fact that things will be brought to our remembrance signify that those same things has been taken away from our memory for whatever reason only God knows. For example, our spirits were pre created before Genesis 1:1.
Our souls are FORMED AFTER physical birth.
At that moment of physical birth, the incarnating of our created SPIRITS causes us to become a LIVING SOUL.
Then our souls are wooed by the Holy Ghost regenerating and recreating our fallen nature, since our souls are to be renewed, formed and spiritualized like unto the Son of God, Jesus Christ.
At physical birth, our souls become breath in form by the co mingling, diffusing, permeating and incarnating of our created spirits within our physical body of the baby. From our physical birth, our souls are to be progressively formed.
After our redemption and regeneration, our souls are to be progressively renewed, formed and spiritualized to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ.
Thus, the definition of the soul as "the sum of all experiences" is Scriptural.
Great division, confusion and conflict has continued for many generations because of the soul's (natural mind) dominance in interpreting the Word of God independent from the Holy Ghost's teaching.
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Post by Sequel on Feb 10, 2007 0:43:20 GMT -6
Brother Chrioni,
There is a gracious teaching or to many, learning by 'feelings' from the Holy Spirit that truths from God enter our knowledge.
For many who have enjoyed the communion with God, my question to the readers would be: are we actually taught by the Holy Spirit or does He engage our spirit/souls with a shared revelation of truth from Him? If it be from God, then are all truths from God eternal? What is the limit of mankind to truth?
God Bless,
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Post by chrioni on Feb 10, 2007 7:34:45 GMT -6
I need to continue where I left off .... and hopefully answer your queries in part.
The word "soul" in Hebrew is neh'-fesh [Strong's 5315] and in Greek is psoo-khay' [Strong's 5990].
The SOUL has 3 faculties of REASON, EMOTION and VOLITION which determines its awareness
SOUL AWARENESS: Interpretation of human life by human wisdom, knowledge and understanding through THOUGHTS and FEELINGS. The soul receives input from the HEART. Within the soul, there is functioning the SUBJECTIVE MIND, which pertains to natural life.
There are TWO central organs of the triune human being i.e. the MIND and the HEART. In order to better understand their relationships, we must take a look at both central organs.
It is important to understand that the mind and the heart work interchangeably between both the soul and the spirit. THE MIND AND THE HEART ARE NEITHER EXCLUSIVE NOR INCLUSIVE TO EITHER THE SOUL OR THE SPIRIT.
The MIND in Hebrew is labe/lay-bawb' and in Greek is nooce/kar-dee'-ah.
The Mind has 3 faculties of INTELLECT, THOUGHTS and MEMORIES which determines its awareness.
MIND AWARENESS: The SUBJECTIVE MIND (Hebrew labe [Strong's 3820] and Greek nooce [Strong's 3563]) is a mind that functions from the SOUL pertaining to the natural life. (1 Corinthians 2:14)
The OBJECTIVE MIND (Hebrew lay-bawb' [Strong's 3824] and Greek kar-dee'-ah) is the MIND OF THE SPIRIT (the mind of Christ) pertaining to the intuitive or spirit life. (1 Corinthians 2:16)
The SUBJECTIVE MIND and the OBJECTIVE MIND possess independent powers, functions and actions. Both are capable of simultaneous actions or activities, abiding together.
The HEART in Hebrew is labe and in Greek is kar-dee'-ah.
The Heart has 3 faculties of ATTITUDES, MOTIVES and REACTIONS which determines heart awareness.
HEART AWARENESS: The heart is actually the RECEIVER organ of all spirit thought. It receives input from a variety of sources: God, all orders of holy angelic spirits, spirits of just men made perfect, all orders of demonic spirits and of course people in general.
In Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked, who can know it? That gives us a clear picture that the heart fell with the human spirit and human soul at the fall of Adam.
Now, the un- regenerated human heart cannot receive from God, but only from satan because it is dead towards God. That is why, the Apostle to the Gentiles encourage us in Colossians 3:22 to have ... "singleness of heart ..." Paul is telling us to receive input from one source, the Holy Ghost.
It is interesting to note that the Old Testament Hebrew word for HEART and MIND is the same i.e. labe which means "the heart, also used (figuratively) very widely for the feelings, the will and even the intellect; likewise for the centre of anything. [Strong's 3820]
Likewise, the New Testament Greek word for HEART and MIND is the same i.e. kar-dee'-ah which means " the heart, thoughts or feelings (mind). [Strong's 2588]
Compare the mind's triune faculties of intellect, thoughts and memories to the heart's triune faculties of attitudes, motives and reactions and one can see why these words are used interchangeably.
In fact, the WILL has its origin in both thought and feeling, therefore employing the same word for both origins does seem to apply.
The Hebrew word for WILL is reh-ooth [Strong's 7470] which means "desire, pleasure, will-power of choosing one's own actions."
The Greek word for WILL is boo'-lom-ahee [Strong's 1014] which means "to will; to choose to be willing."
From these definitions, it does seem as though thought and feeling work concurrently in the formation of the WILL.
The most important aspect of these Hebrew and Greek words is this: The Old Testament believers were under the old covenant and their access to God was by way of the Law. In the New Testament, believers are now under a new covenant of Grace and Mercy because of Christ's provision on the Cross. Our access to God is by way of the Holy Ghost. When you compare the definitions for WILL in both the Hebrew (Old Testament) and the Greek (New Testament), it becomes apparent that the Hebrew definition is SELF ORIENTED, while the Greek definition is more SPIRIT SERVING ORIENTED.
Could it be that the indwelling of the Holy Ghost in the New Testament believers is responsible for the transformation of the word WILL? (Phillippians 2:13)
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Post by Sequel on Feb 10, 2007 12:24:16 GMT -6
Brother Chrioni,
In one of Watchman Nee's books, he made a comparison: which is stronger, a wiseman or a woman who communes with God? The conclusion was the woman.
You bring up an excellent point - can the wisedom of this world describe God? In my writings, the Holy Spirit is the only entity capable of teaching mankind the spiritual meaning of the Word.
The King James translators in 1611 AD concluded their translation with a statement that exonerates them from truely translating spiritual matters. Of all the writings in the world - Jewish, Greek, Latin, Aramaic none are able to convey the spiritual meaning of the Word. The elaborate doctrines of good men have uncovered flaws from the physical understanding of mankind.
It is a huge issue to understand what the All Spirit God meant thru His Word. With all science, doctors, etc... none can define anything that is spirit! We have lived in a sensory perception world and established our knowledge based upon what we can see, smell, touch, hear and then inference is added as a bridge to validate what we cannot percieve! None of this knowledge can define the spiritual meaning of the Word, which is why Jesus sent the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit being God and only God can speak eternal truth.
The knowledge base of mankind protects the evil spirit world thru the ignorance of mankind. There is no spiritual qualifications from authors, linguists, concordance, dictionaries, and those who are not led by the Holy Spirit.
There are no Jewish set of knowledge that reflects direct revelations from God; yet, God speaks to millions of people thru our hearts. The original church that Jesus wanted was your body as the temple of God indwelled by the Holy Spirit. This is the major disconnect amongst Christendom. If we stop creating doctrines, we would cease dividing the body of God.
God Bless,
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Post by chrioni on Feb 10, 2007 20:11:11 GMT -6
Hi Sequel,
You strike at the heart of the matter in all your posts on the subject which is testimony to your intimate communion with the Holy Ghost.
Nothing can replace the Holy Ghost as the teacher in interpreting the Word of God for we read in 1 Corinthians 2:13 that the Holy Ghost teacheth... since the Word of God is written by men who were moved by the Holy Ghost. (2 Peter 1:20-21)
Many has sought the Lord Jesus Christ in the Scriptures, in listening to church leaders during services, retreats, seminars, conferences, in books and tapes (cds) and videos (dvds), etc ... BUT..... they never come to Jesus. I am guilty of that myself.
As John 5:39-40 says ...ye will not COME TO ME (JESUS CHRIST) that ye might have life.
Coming to Jesus and coming to the Word of God are two separate actions. They are not the same. Many know how to come to the Word of God, but very few know how to come to Jesus.
What does it mean to come to Jesus? This is another separate subject on its own.
Allow me to continue with the subject of the soul ...
The NATURAL man is a believer who yields the faculties of his soul to the dominance of his FLESH. It is the regenerated spirit who is imprisoned by the dominance of a mind that is in union with the flesh. (Romans 8:5-8) It is the believer's mind that has not been renewed by the Spirit. (Ephesians 4:23)
It is the psoo-khee-kos' mind (Greek) from the word psoo-kay' which means soul or natural mind. (1 Corinthians 2:14) It is the mind of the SELF that is not being correctly denied. (Luke 9:23) It is the SELF of man's SOUL sitting upon the throne of his heart, as though he is God (2 Thessalonians 2:4) usurping Jesus Christ's place. It is the anti Christ in the disguise.
The psar-kee-kos' mind (the CARNAL mind in Greek) 1 Corinthians 3:3 is the mind of man that still has the sin principle dominant within its nature.
The psoo-kee-kos' mind (the NATURAL mind in Greek) 1 Corinthians 2:14 is the mind of man that has had the sin principle nature broken down within it because the spirit is being regenerated - yet it is still not submitted to Jesus Christ within their regenerated spirits (2 Corinthians 10:3-6) whereby Jesus Christ can renew or spiritualise their soul's mind. (Romans 12:2) The psoo-kee-kos' mind (natural mind) is man's mind and is not yet fully renewed, being void of the spiritual knowing of the Mind of Christ. The natural mind still brings forth death to the believer in all forms (Romans 8:5-8) Sad to say, the majority of Christians fall into this category.
Only the MIND OF CHRIST which is Jesus Christ within your spirit (1 Corinthians 2:16; Ephesians 4:23) and the Holy Ghost quickening the soul's faculties by His revelation activity (Ephesians 1:17-18). By that activity of the Holy Ghost is He spiritualising the soul's faculties - forming it into a renewed mind. Only then will it bring forth life (in Greek ahee-o'-nee-os ) everlasting life (John 3:16)
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Post by Sequel on Feb 11, 2007 3:08:01 GMT -6
Brother Chrioni,
I have always enjoyed your aspirational insights to the Board and many readers also share this.
In our conferences, the soul is drawn as it is seen spiritually. Throughout history, artists have been unable to draw the picture of the soul. Conclusively, the soul can be seen spiritually by the discernment of the Holy Spirit.
Tonight a dear Warrior Saint chatted with me about this subject and the Spirit of God. The Mask of the Demon was written to be a legacy book describing an indepth spiritual understanding of the demon. Although I pondered as whether to include what has been revealed on the 'encapsulation'of the soul by the spirit of man, which may come as a great shock to many, which is also from God! It was not included.
Without the Spirit, there can be no life and its own attributes are infinite. The current knowledge of multiple universes and 'string theory' fits the Spirit of God very well and is being confirmed by theorists on multiple universes. There are many confirmation by scriptures.
A new definition and application of 'allegorism' is direly needed to bring spiritual understanding to the fore front of human knowledge. Fortunately, there are no doctorates issued in this subject matter - but only 'discernment' or revelation by God. Unless Christendom identifies the need of spiritual definitions, the masses will become more removed from that which is spiritual.
Had I learned from 'shared' revelations from God earlier in my ministry, there would have resulted in 2X-3Xs the written understanding about God. Few people have come forth and the spiritual masses have been replete with exhorters of erred doctrines. This practice must cease to preserve the purity of theology. As I mentioned in one of my books - if we but bring truth into the future, then our children would be within the grasp of God!
God Bless,
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Post by spirit on Feb 13, 2007 3:36:53 GMT -6
My definition of the soul is the mind, body, will and emotions. This definition has been taken from DemonBuster.
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