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WORSHIP
Dec 31, 2008 0:07:36 GMT -6
Post by chrioni2P on Dec 31, 2008 0:07:36 GMT -6
I am taking Sequel and Seeker question one step further - what have you done for God?
Let me share with the readership where a christian was taken up in a study tour to a place in heaven where many pastors and evangelists stay.
They (the pastors and evangelists had gone home to be with the Lord) were each given a one room apartment. Many of them protested to the Holy Spirit that while they lived on earth, they had made many sacrifices to serve God in the ministry. They had given up lucrative careers material wealth and comforts, luxuries, holidays and many other things to serve God. They said that they deserve better than a one room apartment.
The Holy Spirit opened their books of records in Heaven and revealed their works item by item. By the side of each work they did, there was a remark about their MOTIVES for doing that particular work. They checked their own records and were astounded by what they saw - every LITTLE and HIDDEN motives was revealed.
For example, one had an item that said: Preached at a miracle rally at such a place at such a date. Motive: to get more recognition for self. Another item: accepted the pastorate of a church in this place. Motive: to receive larger love offerings since there were many rich church members there.
The angel also revealed that since these pastors and evangelists relied on their OWN strength and ability and did NOT CONSULT with the Holy Spirit, hardly any angels could help them in their ministry.
Therefore, in Heaven, they will be left to themselves to do things for themselves WITHOUT the aid of any angels. Other christians in other places in heaven would have the assistance of angels, but not these pastors and evangelists.
To quell any more complaints from these pastors and evangelists, the Holy Spirit left their books of records at their apartment so that they can continue checking their records if they are still dissatisfied!!!
1 Corinthians 3:12-15 Are the works you have done for the Lord of wood, hay or stubble? The fire of God will burn the works - he shall suffer loss, but himself shall be saved.
Are the works you have done for the Lord of gold, silver or precious stone? The fire of God will test the works - he shall receive a reward.
Be forever blessed
Bro Chrioni
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WORSHIP
Dec 31, 2008 8:15:41 GMT -6
Post by seeker on Dec 31, 2008 8:15:41 GMT -6
Bro Chrioni, That is an interesting story....however I respectfully don't really agree with it....let me explain. We are all so messed up. It just takes one person not agreeing with us for us to start pouting and get our feelings hurt. Our hearts are largely a mystery to us and most of us don't even come close to seeing who we really are. Look at the disciples, they were arguing over who was going to get the highest seat of power....the right or left hand of Jesus. Yet did they end up in apartments? No, they are judging the twelve tribes of Israel. I don't believe there are apartments in heaven. I believe that all God's children will receive mansions as He said in His word. I also believe that God's love is able to overlook my failings. Did you know that most of us who post on this forum do it to be 'heard' and 'seen'? I do not exclude myself in this. All it takes is to 'feel' you aren't understood and most of us go away with hurt feelings. We are all alike. We all struggle....I think the only good in me that's earning a mansion is Jesus Christ. I like what Jesus said when the disciples complained that others were out doing His work....casting out devils. Jesus had not commissioned them and they took it upon themselves to go do it.....knowing people, they were probably doing it out of intrigue and just having fun. Jesus said forbid them not, whoever is not against us is for us. That leaves a wide gate to do the work of God. If you pray for someone because you know they are hurting and you really care......and it made you feel important. I think God is big enough to overlook our shortcomings and work anyways. After all, he used a donkey when needed to....and so we are all basically.... a donkey . Praise to him and look at the silly donkeys Blessings, Seeker
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WORSHIP
Dec 31, 2008 20:56:52 GMT -6
Post by chrioni on Dec 31, 2008 20:56:52 GMT -6
Seeker
Thank you for your feedback. This is what this Forum is for - sharing of ideas, thoughts, revelations, etc. Exchanges of views, opinions, ideas etc. - why you disagree to a view expressed, etc. Of course, we have a moderator because there are rules to abide by in a forum.
That particular study tour in heaven has to do with our rewards and the motives of our heart will decide whether we get or lose our rewards.
There is a need to strike a balance with truth, otherwise one can go into extremes - total neglect of truth or over emphasis of truth.
It is clear from that Scripture reference if our works are of wood, hay or stubble, we will lose our rewards. (1 Corinthian 3:15)
Your example of the original disciples - men subject to like passions (human weaknesses) as we are - that they argued about who's the greatest, etc.
How did the original disciples (except for Judas Iscariot the betrayer) end up judging the 12 tribes of Israel?
We need a complete picture of the original disciples' lives in order to come to a conclusion as to why they ended up judging the 12 tribes of Israel.
Do you know that all the disciples (except the beloved apostle John) were all martyred (either crucified, stoned to death, speared to death, beheaded) - they laid down their lives for the sake of the gospel of Jesus? There it is - the price they pay - martyrdom and their reward - judging the 12 tribes of Israel.
That study tour in heaven accords with Jesus' teaching - the Sermon on the Mount (or the Be attitudes) in Matthew Chapters 5, 6 and 7 Eg pray & fast, give alms, etc to be seen of man - they have their reward. Jesus was dealing with the MOTIVES of the heart - wrong motives = no reward in Heaven.
Revelation 22:12 Jesus Himself says "... My reward is with Me to give to every man according as his work shall be."
Notice our works are tied to our rewards.
Earth is pattern after Heaven. If we have apartments on earth, isn't it possible to have apartments in Heaven? We have one bedroom apartments here on earth.
We know that in Heaven, there are trees, rivers, lakes, mountains, etc just like we have it here on earth.
Why do you think there are books in Heaven? (Revelation 20:12) Part of the reason is for judgment - according to their works.
Malachi 3:16 ... a book of remembrance ...them that feared the LORD and that thought upon His name.
You bring up a very important and big area - HURTS and OFFENSES in the heart which should come under another thread or the thread "When will the heart embrace truth?"
Remember, we are men subject to like passions ( James 5:17) Thank God for the ministry of the Holy Spirit ... to convict of sin, of righteousness and of judgment (John 16:8). Thank God for bringing people across our paths to "straightened" us up as we are so "messed" up.
Whether we agree or not with that story of the study tour in heaven does NOT affect our salvation. It's clear from 1 Corinthians 3:15 ... himself shall be saved. The loss that is suffered is no reward.
Be Blessed Bro Chrioni
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WORSHIP
Dec 31, 2008 22:18:03 GMT -6
Post by seeker on Dec 31, 2008 22:18:03 GMT -6
Brother Chrioni, All that God has given me is a gift. I don't think I'll enter heaven under the premise of my greatness on earth, any abilities I seem to possess, wonderful acts of goodness, or any such thing.....nor do I see in any wise me earning a mansion....it too is a gift. I hardly feel worth the clothes on my back let alone to worry about such things as mansions, positions of importance, and the like. The only thing I've truly earned is hell fire and d**nation....for which I"m glad He paid for that so I don't have to ....beyond that I have not one ounce of goodness....He alone is God....good....all I wish to do is please His heart. And I can't even do that unless He gives me the strength, wisdom, and power to do that. I'm not worried about what I will receive once I get to heaven..., I am already overwhelmed that He promised me salvation and it is my joy to discover His Mind as He imparts it to me....again ...another precious gift that my Father bestowed upon my undeserving self....so I can reach my hearts desire to live with Him forever, which I also believe He placed in my heart....that new one He gave me. When Jesus Himself said that he could do nothing of Himself and that He wasn't good, I for sure know that I can not be and so the last thing I worry about is earning anything. Also, if I were to stand in a glorious mansion in heaven and see you in an apartment....it would break my heart. I would not be able to live in a mansion then.....and would rather live under a tree or something ..... Blessings, Seeker
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Post by chrioni on Jan 1, 2009 0:05:34 GMT -6
Hi Seeker
We need story like the study tour in heaven to "shake us from our comfort zone".
Wait.... there is more (like what the advertisement says) .... to "stir" us up ..... still on the subject of heavenly rewards.
This christian who went up to Heaven for a study tour spoke to a well known world wide christian (I called Bro X) who has now gone home to be with the Lord. I will respect Bro X by not identifying him. Bro X started a christian movement that spread across the globe in almost every city and town in almost every nation. As far as his work is concerned, it seems such a great tremendous blessings to many. There were meetings, magazines for christian testimonies, souls were saved - surely he had done a great work for God. Bro X received many accolades from many well known christian personalities and ministries. He was constantly encouraged for the great work he initiated and organised.
So, when Bro X went up to Heaven, he expected a great reward. When he arrived at the pearly gates of heaven, he stood at the entrance waiting to meet Jesus Christ. Jesus did not come out to meet him. He protested to the escorting angel and said that he had done so much for Jesus and now he wants to see Jesus he had been serving while on earth. Bro X waited at the entrance of the pearly gates for three days and finally an angel came and told him that Jesus would not meet him.
Bro X was puzzled. Hadn't he served the Master wholeheartedly? Hadn't his work saved many souls? Hadn't his ministry borne so much fruit across the whole earth?
Bro X finally agreed to follow his escorting angel and to his utter disappointment, he found that he was rewarded with a SMALL COTTAGE HOUSE. He had expected something grander and palatial - a huge mansion.
Finally, the escorting angel asked Bro X "When you started this movement, did you get instructions from the Lord? Think carefully. Where did that idea come from?"
Bro X recalled for the first time that he mooted the idea of the movement he started and found that it was just his OWN GOOD IDEA but it did not come from God. He recalled that God did not speak to him about the idea.
Then the escorting angel showed Bro X his personal records. He was stunned by what was recorded and the subsequent consequences that he did not see. Bro X saw how many of his own actions, though outwardly praiseworthy, were in fact LEADING MANY AWAY from their own true callings when others jumped onto the bandwagon he started.
So stunned was Bro X that he remained dumbfounded for a very long time. Bro X was so flabbergasted that all he could offer repeatedly was: " You mean, I did that? You mean, I did that?
1 Corinthians 3:15 says If our works for God is of wood, hay or stubble we will lose our rewards, but we shall be saved.
It is better to know it now (on earth) than to know it later (in heaven).
Be blessed Bro Chrioni
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Post by chrioni on Jan 1, 2009 7:38:58 GMT -6
Back to the subject of worship (as I digress to the subject of heavenly rewards which should be in a separate thread - that study tour of heaven - there is a lot more, not just the two accounts ...).
Worship is a command and like all commands are summed up in the greatest command i.e. loving God with every fiber of our being.
Worship and loving God are linked.
Let me tell a story. There is a person (let's say he is called Bro Z) who died and went to Heaven and came back.
Jesus met Bro Z and said to him: "You do not really love Me" He replied: " Yes, Lord, I do. I spent four hours with You. I read Your Word. I preached. I go on an annual 40 day fast. I have won souls for You."
Jesus said again: "You do not really love Me". Bro Z replied: "Yes, Lord, I do. I have done this ... for You. I have done that ... for You."
In the end, the Lord said: "You have this wrong relationship with that other person who is a part of My Body. IF YOU CANNOT LOVE HIM, YOU CANNOT LOVE ME".
Scripture reference
1 John 4:20 If a man say: I love God and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen; how can he love God whom he hath not seen? 1 John 4:21 .... he who loveth God love his brother also.
The story of the Good Samaritan in Luke 10:30-37 is a practical example of love in action - help the brother in need.
The Warrior Saint Ministry (and its affiliates and associates) is another example of real exorcism labour of love in action - setting the captives totally free.
When you witness first hand demons causing havoc in people lives bringing sickness and diseases, what would you do?
Be Blessed
Bro Chrioni
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Post by seeker on Jan 1, 2009 9:47:16 GMT -6
Brother Chrioni,
Man cannot purify his own heart. It is futile to try. All the head knowledge in the world cannot change one molecule of your soul. I think the Israelites proved this quite well.
When people ask me how to stop sinning, break a habit, and to have a pure heart my first word of advice is, "Quit trying to be holy."
When a person stops trying to fix oneself it moves pride out of the way, then God can truly begin to work with one.
I tell them to fall on their face and smite their chest and cry out to God....if need be lay on the floor on their face and just tearfully tell God everything cause He sees it anyway. I tell them not to even attempt to cure themselves...they aren't God and they can't do it. Only He can save us....we cannot save anyone, let alone ourselves.
Anything good in us is Him....we are nothing. When we try to become 'something' we do and its not pretty as it is unclean and full of every vile thing. That is the something we become.....we join the same 'somethings' that are also separated from God through their wisdom and efforts.
The reason some works get burnt up in His Fire of Truth, is because it wasn't Him in us that moved us to do those things and those things aren't good, but seemed good to a corrupt mind in us that thought it was good.
God says that anyone who even so much as gives a person a drink of water in His name will 'not' loose his reward.....I truly know and believe that all good on earth that is done will be rewarded by Him.....not burnt in a blaze of infernal fury.
Even in the second judgement will God give recognition to good works. He is good...all good is of Him and will be seen and understood by all.
Blessings,
Seeker
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WORSHIP
Jan 1, 2009 12:50:09 GMT -6
Post by Sequel on Jan 1, 2009 12:50:09 GMT -6
As with the rights of God in Job, people often have to 'stretch' their cognitive functions to the limits in the understanding of God.
Worship has many faces as well as salvation. Although there are truths in the scriptures that will be upheld by God alone, His mercy is also infinite as part of His attributes. seeker raises the point that none are worthy to be saved and there is no righteousness amongst us.
Yet, God talks about the many that will be saved. As with Job, God has in His own mercy given salvation to many; but, there is no exacting definition as to who and why they are to be saved. God as the source of truth will answer in truth and in mercy He will answer in mercy! I don't think there is a minister or theologian that has exacted the God parameters of salvation.
We as people have been forewarned to work out our salvation in trembling. The lives we live, the evil we have placed upon the world is no launch pad for heaven and the righteousness of God as no one has ever attained righhteousness (full complicity to God).
Today, even the kids are immersed in witchcraft an abhorrent to God. The times have changed and the lives have been further removed from God - so near the end, all will be confronted with this very question.
An 84 year old widow asked me this question for about a year and she was instructed to forgive herself and forgive the men that murdered her husband and only son. It took her 2-3 mos to ask God to forgive those evil persons, but she acted upon the Word and in faith. She attended every service for 20 years and she walked from where she was to a righteous road towards God. What is arising in this post is the justice of God, His grace and mercy, and where we stand. There is no contradiction as it is God Who will decide. Grace to you.
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WORSHIP
Jan 1, 2009 22:57:39 GMT -6
Post by seeker on Jan 1, 2009 22:57:39 GMT -6
I was pondering today that verse in Jeremiah....10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps. It became apparant to me.....If God does not become our way in us, we are lost. We do not possess the way to God and no good thing dwells in us apart from Him. I was thinking of how hard God tried to lead the children of Israel with fear and respect....clouds by day, fire by night....but without Him in them, they could not follow...their hearts were hearts of stone or unable to really love/understand Him and to stay a course of goodness. What is real worship when all that I am apart from Him is but refuse? Real worship can only come from His Spirit in me. Real worship can only come from that which is notable and good....neither of those do I have on my own. Without Him, I really am nothing....what can I give Him who is The Most High God from that....my own self.... surely self would not be a sweet smelling odor to the King of Kings! The mind set of defiled worship is based on the belief that one has something notable to offer.....but what honor is there in being worshipped by a fool? True worship must come from HIs Spirit with the understanding of some degree of who He is ...Truth. What is the most honorable worship? I really don't know....but I wonder....is it to obey God from a pure heart? .....To truly bow/submit the spirit, soul, and body in reverent respect....not with outward motions persay...but with ones heart, mind, and soul? I am glad that God will decide what is real worship and what is not. He already knows who are His and who are not and only He knows what is truly in our hearts. I've seen a lot of phony bologny in churches....everything from trumpet blasts to flag waving to dancing in the spirit practices..... and I doubt He's easily fooled or impressed by such things . People do much to passify their own guilt. I'm astounded at times at the creative approaches I have observed and sometimes horrified to see how deceptive ones own heart can be. David said it best, "cleanse me from my secret sins" ....
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WORSHIP
Feb 13, 2009 3:21:43 GMT -6
Post by ANGIE on Feb 13, 2009 3:21:43 GMT -6
1Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.
2Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.
3Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
4Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
5Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
6Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD. Psalm 150
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WORSHIP
Jun 14, 2019 11:43:24 GMT -6
Post by ibaqamih on Jun 14, 2019 11:43:24 GMT -6
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WORSHIP
Jun 14, 2019 13:29:58 GMT -6
Post by uliikosuhoce on Jun 14, 2019 13:29:58 GMT -6
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